Future site use

Is this issue important to you? Votes: 14 User-icon by admin 3:06pm, 4 June 2008

The Purdon & Associates report made certain recommendations regarding the future use options for the community site? Which option do you prefer?

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Ic_relatesdoc Relates to document: Holt Final Report A (2.9 MB)

crossy

Jun 08, 2008 05:18pm

11 agree 2 disagree

There are 2 preferred options in the report. 1a (revised) preserves most of the site for community uses and (importantly)retains the open space that commects with the oval providing a green corridor that could be used to significantly enhance recreation in the area.

What a pity that the recommendation seems to be to go with 3a(revised) which sees a retirement development in an area with plenty of existing retirement accommodation.

I dont know anyone who is for this approach.

This is the community's land and should be used for the community to enjoy. Some have suggested off leash dog walking areas and others community forest. All agree it should be retained as open space.

By the way the summarty table is misleading. It appears to suggest no development on the site. If I had not read the detail of the report I would have missed the true intentions.

Wirra

Jun 27, 2008 04:50pm

3 agree 1 disagree

Bang the table or bang your head against a brick wall?

I have been involved in all the consultation processes and I believe the 1a option most accurately reflects the community wishes.

My own personal belief is that the future number of children in the area has been grossly under-estimated. This is especially true now West Macgreggor is rapidly filling up. The whole intact facility will be needed in the future!

Another player on the scene is the fact that new community developments in ACT are being planned with the village concept in mind. Why? Because with the price of fuel only looking to increase, we need to be able to WALK to all facilities. We already HAVE a local school that everyone can walk to!

Please leave the facility intact.

*Goes back to banging head against wall*

ashleyp

Jun 10, 2008 09:10am

2 agree 11 disagree

These are classic urban infill sites, put low cost housing on them all; this is a chance to do something about fixing Canberras housing affordability problem.

People always compain about government taxes and charges and then complain when they try to minimise them by realizing their assets.

These sites are not needed as schools so they should maximise the return and do some social good as well with low cost houing.

I do agree with Crossy (above) that retirement stuff is a bad idea. This is really an attempt to make development look community minded. Low cost housing should be for all.

are they listening?

Jun 30, 2008 12:27pm

3 agree 1 disagree

ashleyp

I would be careful supporting the urban infill of the site on the assumption that once it is sold the government will use the money to reduce taxes! In regards to low cost housing, if you look at the Canberra Plan, the site to the west of the Golf Course Estate is already earmarked for development of more retirement housing. Macgregor West has provided a substantial amount of low cost housing. The Molonglo development to the south of Holt will provide housing for thousands of people. The low cost housing pitch is just a spoonful of sugar to help the 'site will be developed regardless of what the community wants' medicine go down.

Hennii

Jun 24, 2008 02:58pm

11 agree 1 disagree

Once you relinquish the land it is gone forever. The report states that Holt has below the Belconnen average green space although still acceptable levels. The people have spoken, they prefer option 1a, open community space.

Why humour us with ANOTHER round of consultations and I quote from the report:

"The community should be involved in the planning process and especially have the opportunity for input into the discussions about the form and density of development."

for something no one wants anyway.

are they listening?

Jun 30, 2008 12:17pm

7 agree 2 disagree

The government obviously has its agenda and regardless of any 'consultation', will press on with what it wants to do. They want to develop, and they are determined to do so. The feedback in the Holt report clearly states that the community wants it completely retained for community use, and if that is not possible, use it for an independant school. Development of the site came a very distant third in regards to preferred options. If the site was sold/rented to an independant private school, the open space would be kept, the private school would maintain the grounds beautifully and the community would have access to the buildings and grounds,the buildings would be maintained and the government would still make money. I know that the Government said they 'wouldn't sell to a private school' but if the community isn't against it...why not?! It's not like they haven't gone back on promises before (eg ACT Dragway), why get all pious on us now! Does anyone else support the rental/sale of the site to an independant school? I do!

Wirra

Jul 03, 2008 05:06pm

5 agree 1 disagree

So,in the wash up, what were the school closures really all about?

Selling the land to developers! However, they couldn't say that upfront so they just pretended to have community consultation over the last two years while their agenda was already fixed.

However - there are new 2006 statistics available now and the number of children in the 0-4 years age bracket has gone up. AND, this isn't counting all the children born since 2006 and the new West Macgregor development.

The site needs to be retained intact for community use and this is what the community wants.

Trees4all

Jul 07, 2008 08:36pm

4 agree 1 disagree

I feel the site should be left as green open space for the whole suburb to enjoy and not as high density, low cost housing. I believe that the area would receive more benefit from leaving it as a community area.

David Ricketts

Jul 10, 2008 08:37pm

0 agree 4 disagree

I would say if the Holt site is to be used for housing there is not much that can be done to stop it. I would however say that this is a good chance for the ACT Government to show its "Green credentials". Maybe all of the new dwellings could have rain water tanks and solar hot water heaters. Perhaps even solar panels. Throw in a some piping for grey water use on gardens that will turn the area and the oval into a green oasis. I could live with that.

MBN

Jul 13, 2008 09:40pm

4 agree 1 disagree

I have been a labor voter all my life. My parents were labor voters ad I have always voted labor.Always.

This ACT government has changed all that. They appear to just bulldoze over any issue that they want by pretending to listen, then do what they want anyway. They do not listen to anything put before them. This Holt issue is a classic example. The vast majority of comments on this forum and at public meetings, when asked what they think should be done with the space after the school closure ( funnily enough, the school is never mentioned in any literature), agree that it should be retained as a public space. Do this government listen? No. They have always planned to sell the land and cram in as many dwellings as possible and make as much money as possible. Wasting our time and money with pretend consultations so that they can justify their actions.

As I said, I am a Holt resident and firmly believe that the land adjacent to the CLOSED SCHOOL ( didn't close any in Yarralumla did they?) should be keep as a green, public space.

Sadly, this government is so bad it has taken a lifelong labor voter and left them with nothing to believe in.

David Ricketts

Jul 14, 2008 09:35am

0 agree 1 disagree

Unfortunately when I was at the last meeting I only met 3 people who lived next door to the proposed developments (and they where my neighbours). Although the majority of people at the meetings had high aspirations and good intentions most did not seem to live next to the oval. This means they do not see the nightly drug deals, burnouts, races up the Pickworth St, home made bombs under the small bridge and youths taking pot-shots at my youngest son (this has all happened in 2008) I am only a low income earner so I can not afford to move out of my house. Perhaps if new dwellings are created the current nefarious activities that happen may cease and my children may be able to play on the oval without the worry of "Hoon danger". Therefore I look forward to a development that might fix the current problems that my family currently puts up with.".

HoltResident

Jul 15, 2008 09:47am

4 agree 0 disagree

I see where you are coming from, but solving crime by removing green space is like reducing speeding by increasing traffic. It *might* solve the problem, but not really in an ideal way, and there's no guarantee that it will solve it and not make it worse.

are they listening?

Jul 15, 2008 09:56am

3 agree 0 disagree

Are you talking about the school oval or the community oval next to it? It is the school oval that is going to be developed. If you are worried about hoon activity then developing the school site will not necessarily fix the problem, the community oval is still going to be there for them to use, with another 68 'low cost housing' homes to add extra people to the mix. For your solution to work, both the school site and the community oval would need to be put under development. Oh dear, I shouldn't have said that, based on the outcomes listed in the GHD report from the last community meeting they will probably take that last sentance and present it to the Govt as an idea that has been endorsed by the Holt residents!

MBN

Jul 19, 2008 12:06pm

0 agree 0 disagree

Mate, I live near the ovals and I know about most of the stuff you have to put up with ( although the pot shots at your son are very worrying). I agree that this activity needs to stop however I do not think cramming more townhouses onto a green space is the solution. This may only add fuel to the fire with many more hoons with nothing to do.

SMR

Jul 14, 2008 10:11pm

5 agree 0 disagree

I must have been at a different meeting on 4 July - I thought that retaining the site for a school or educational use was rated very highly by a number of the tables but it doesn't feature in the summary at all! So maybe the summary only reflects the comments that the Government is going to be prepared to hear

are they listening?

Jul 15, 2008 10:09am

3 agree 0 disagree

SMR

I too think I must have been at a different meeting! By my count on the night, there were at least 12 - 15 post it notes that mentioned either an independant school or educational use (second only to the community use idea), but absolutely no mention of this in the outcome report. Obviously GHD received some pretty specific terms of reference as to what they could and could not report as outcomes. Its a bit disappointing, after all their assurances were that all our views would be represented. I hope they're not paying GHD too many of our tax dollars to do this...as it is my money that is being used I'm rather disappointed that the product I have recieved is not the product I paid for!

HoltResident

Jul 15, 2008 09:44am

4 agree 0 disagree

I am concerned by a couple of things in the "Community Forum Outcomes".

1) The layout seems designed to accentuate the "appropriate" uses, and de-emphasise the inappropriate uses. Each appropriate use gets its own bullet point, including HOUSING, whereas on the inappropriate side housing is just one of many. I feel this grossly misrepresents the depth of feeling AGAINST housing on the site, compared to the number of people who supported it.

It does seem that everyone's views were captured, but that no weighting was applied - there is no distinction between cases where one person supported an idea or 20 people supported it. I hope this will be captured in a more comprehensive report.

2) I don't recall any acknowledgement of Holt being a "lower socio-economic area". That seems ot be paving the way for throwing in cheap housing.

AshleyP's philanthropy is admirable, however I would ask where they live ? Are they a Holt resident ? How close to the school do they live ? Will they be directly impacted by the development, or will they just get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that a problem has been solved without any inconvenience to them ?

are they listening?

Jul 15, 2008 10:15am

3 agree 0 disagree

Holt Resident

I agree with you re: the layout issue...but we saw the same thing in the Purdon report (i.e. burying the 'development' idea in the back pages of the report and highlighting the 'community hall' up the front), so I guess we didn't have cause to expect anything better from GHD.

I also definately agree with you in regards to the lack of weighting to the ideas, I have no recollection of a 'mental health centre' being mentioned however obviously one person has. This has somehow then made it into the 'appropriate' uses section where as the 15 odd mentions of 'independant school' hasn't. Not a balanced representation of the views at the meeting at all.

There was mention of Holt being a low socio-economic area, but this was as part of an argument against low cost housing on the site, as there was a concern that this would tip the balance towards an over abundance of low income households in Holt.

David Ricketts

Jul 16, 2008 09:51pm

0 agree 0 disagree

Unfortunately though I might agree with you comments in principle I would have to point to a couple major problems.

a. I would think there must be at least 500 home dwellers living in Holt (probably closer to 1000 I think) that could not find the time to attend the Kippax meeting. There would have been certainly no more that 50 on the GHD meeting night.

b. There are only 18 emails on this blog site over the past 5 weeks.

So "is the government listening" probably. “Do they care” probably not as most residents seem to be to apathetic to the problem.

Emma & Iso

Jul 17, 2008 10:18am

2 agree 0 disagree

The 300 surveyed will outweigh those of us at the meeting.

The question was never asked in the survey if they were renting or owning. I would asume people renting would be for low income housing.

The results from the GHD meeting at Kippax should hold more weight.

The socio-economic level of Holt is important to long term and residents and investors.

The survey would have been asking mostly people who didnt even care to attend the meeting, who certainly wouldnt care about the community and the direction of Holt.

are they listening?

Jul 17, 2008 12:54pm

1 agree 0 disagree

These are major problems, however I would be interested to investigate if the lack of response is due to apathy about the topic or apathy about the process itself.

To go to the meeting, you first had to register, then turn up from 6pm - 10pm...in the middle of winter. I arrived late, after feeding and bathing the kids. I'm lucky enough to have a partner who could put them to bed. The 2006 census data shows that there are 232 single parent households in Holt, 127 of those have children under 15. I doubt that anyone from these households would have been able to attend the meeting, even if they did care.

The majority of households in Holt earn less then $1500 gross/week. After tax and rent/mortgage, these people are probably more concerned with making ends meet then fighting the government...maybe this is what the government is counting on.

Lastly, of all the households in Holt, 620 do not have the internet (as at 2006), so they wouldn't be able to make any comments on this site. It would also be interesting to then check computer literacy levels, are people capable of getting to this site, registering and then commenting?

It is a convoluted process and people are tired and disheartened after not being listened too during the first two consultations. It would be easy for some to stop caring.

MBN

Jul 19, 2008 12:11pm

1 agree 0 disagree

Great points are they listening?

Holt is a much easier target than say, the Belconnen suburb where Jon lives.

are they listening?

Jul 15, 2008 10:18am

4 agree 0 disagree

I wonder if the Government is reading this site. Doubt it...which is a clever tactic really. We are all dutifully making our comments on this website, which is tucked away out of the view of the public. By putting it here and not in the papers, the ACT community is not seeing that there are people who care about this issue.

Maybe we should post here but also make sure we keep on writing to the papers as well?

MBN

Jul 19, 2008 12:22pm

0 agree 0 disagree

I know the government takes an interest in this site. Not anyone of significance, just a pen pusher whose job it is to monitor such things and then pretend to be a local and add comments that support the government wishes.

Lordon

Jul 16, 2008 01:51pm

3 agree 1 disagree

We attended the 3 July forum at Kippax. At that meeting the case for allowing an independent school to take-over the Holt site and utilise the existing school building was advocated. Those present agreed, indeed enthusiastically, that such a solution would not only maintain but improve the amenity and security of the site. A suggestion that the site be shared by the independent school and a 'Men's Shed'facility was overwhelmingly supported by spontaneous applause. The precis displayed of the meeting's submissions ignores the case put forward for an independent school. Neither does it record that the meeting much preferred that the existing old and inadequate community buildings on site be replaced by a single new structure.

Lorraine & Donald Fraser.